ॐ नमो भगवते श्री रमणाय ।
Om Namo Bhagavate Shri Ramanaya!
Our own self-realization is the greatest service we can render the world.
~ Bhagavan Shri Ramana Maharshi
Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi
Talk 507.
22nd August, 1938
An Arya Samajist from Bangalore with a companion visited Sri Maharshi.
D.: I find that it is observed in this Asramam. Probably without the approval of Sri Bhagavan others observe it here.
M.: Who are you that speak of others, etc.? Did you notice others, etc., in your sushupti?
D.: I am the individuality here. I may not see others in my sleep but I see them now.
M.: No doubt you do. But the one who sees now and the one who did not see in sleep are you only - the same individual. Why should you
notice differences now and be troubled? Be as you were in sleep.
D.: That cannot be. I see it now whereas I do not see it in my sleep.
That does not alter the existing state of affairs.
D.: Their existence is independent of the subject.
M.: Do you say that they exist, or do they come and announce their existence to you?
D.: I know that they exist.
M.: So it is your knowledge of them only. Their existence is not absolute.
D.: Even if I did not know they will continue to exist.
M.: Do you claim their existence in the absence of your knowledge of them? (Laughter).
D.: Brahman is equal to all. There cannot be any distinction there. Caste-distinction is against the highest principle.
M.: Why do you drag in Brahman? He has no grievances. Let him who has grievances pursue the matter.
D.: You are a Mahatma. You cannot admit castes. But how do the people here enforce such distinctions?
M.: Did I tell you that I am a Jnani or a mahatma? You are saying it yourself. Nor did I make a grievance of this caste affair.
D.: Paramatma is the same in all.
M.: Why do you bring in all these names? They can take care of themselves. They do not require your help.
D.: Mahatma Gandhi also admits equality...
M.: Gandhi is not here.
D.: Aurobindo does not approve of castes. Do you approve of them?
M.: As for Aurobindo, you ask him. As for my opinion, how does it matter to you? How will it be of use to you? Have you got any opinion on the
matter? That alone will affect you, not the opinion of others.
D.: I do not approve of the caste system. Mahatma’s opinion is valuable as a guidance. I want your blessings in my attempts.
M.: Mahatma has told you to seek and find your Self. You will notdo it but require his blessings.
D.: I am trying to follow the instructions. But caste-distinction is painful. It must go.
M.: To whom does it cause pain?
D.: The members of the society...
M.: It is you who say it. There are countries where there are no such distinctions of caste. Are they free from trouble? There are wars,
internecine struggle, etc. Why do you not remedy the evils there?
D.: There are troubles here also.
M.: Differences are always there. There are not only human beings, but also animals, plants, etc. The state of affairs cannot be helped.
D.: We do not mind the animals, etc., at present.
M.: Why not? If they could speak they would claim equality with you and dispute your claims no less vigorously than human beings.
D.: But we cannot help it. It is God’s work.
M.: If that is God’s work then the other part is your work, is that so?
D.: It is man-made distinction.
M.: You need not notice these distinctions. There is diversity in the world. A unity runs through the diversity. The Self is the same in
all. There is no difference in spirit. All the differences are external and superficial. You find out the Unity and be happy. The pain of diversity is overcome by the joy of the perception of
unity. Moreover, a king may disguise himself as a servant. That makes no difference in the person.
D.: I do not object to differences. But the claims of superiority are wrong.
M.: There are differences in the limbs of one’s body. When the hand touches the foot the hand is not defiled. Each limb performs itsfunction. Why do you object to differences?
D.: The people feel the injustice of caste distinction. It must be rooted out.
M.: You can individually arrive at the state where such distinctions are not perceived and be happy. How can you hope to reform the
world? Even if you try you cannot succeed. Kavyakantha Ganapati Sastri offered to initiate Harijans with mantras and make Brahmins
of them. But the Harijans did not come forward to accept the offer. That shows they are themselves afflicted by an inferiority complex. Remove that complex first before you try to reform others.
Moreover, why do you go to places where such distinctions are observed and cause pain to yourself? Why should you not seek
places where they are not observed and be happy there? Gandhiji also tries to bring about equality. He is also up against the barrier of inferiority complex afflicting the lower orders. He
cannot enforce his views on others. He observes non-violence. So matters stand as they are.
D.: We must work to obliterate caste-distinctions.
M.: Then do it. If you have succeeded in the world, then see if the distinctions persist in this place.
D.: This must be the first place where I want to effect the reform.
M.: Why do you exert yourself so much to effect reforms? Go to sleep and see if there are differences. There you obliterate differences
without any effort. (Laughter).
Om Namo Bhagavate Shri Ramanaya!
Our own self-realization is the greatest service we can render the world.
~ Bhagavan Shri Ramana Maharshi
Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi
Talk 507.
22nd August, 1938
An Arya Samajist from Bangalore with a companion visited Sri Maharshi.
He asked: What is the use of yoga-practice? Is it for personal use or universal benefit?
M.: Yoga means union of two entities. What are they? Enquire. Use or benefit is in relation to some centre. What is it? Enquire.
D.: Should there be distinction of castes?
M.: Who is it that sees such distinction? Find it out.
M.: Yoga means union of two entities. What are they? Enquire. Use or benefit is in relation to some centre. What is it? Enquire.
D.: Should there be distinction of castes?
M.: Who is it that sees such distinction? Find it out.
D.: I find that it is observed in this Asramam. Probably without the approval of Sri Bhagavan others observe it here.
M.: Who are you that speak of others, etc.? Did you notice others, etc., in your sushupti?
D.: I am the individuality here. I may not see others in my sleep but I see them now.
M.: No doubt you do. But the one who sees now and the one who did not see in sleep are you only - the same individual. Why should you
notice differences now and be troubled? Be as you were in sleep.
D.: That cannot be. I see it now whereas I do not see it in my sleep.
That does not alter the existing state of affairs.
M.: Do the objects exist in the absence of the subject?
D.: Their existence is independent of the subject.
M.: Do you say that they exist, or do they come and announce their existence to you?
D.: I know that they exist.
M.: So it is your knowledge of them only. Their existence is not absolute.
D.: Even if I did not know they will continue to exist.
M.: Do you claim their existence in the absence of your knowledge of them? (Laughter).
D.: Brahman is equal to all. There cannot be any distinction there. Caste-distinction is against the highest principle.
M.: Why do you drag in Brahman? He has no grievances. Let him who has grievances pursue the matter.
D.: You are a Mahatma. You cannot admit castes. But how do the people here enforce such distinctions?
M.: Did I tell you that I am a Jnani or a mahatma? You are saying it yourself. Nor did I make a grievance of this caste affair.
D.: Paramatma is the same in all.
M.: Why do you bring in all these names? They can take care of themselves. They do not require your help.
D.: Mahatma Gandhi also admits equality...
M.: Gandhi is not here.
D.: Aurobindo does not approve of castes. Do you approve of them?
M.: As for Aurobindo, you ask him. As for my opinion, how does it matter to you? How will it be of use to you? Have you got any opinion on the
matter? That alone will affect you, not the opinion of others.
D.: I do not approve of the caste system. Mahatma’s opinion is valuable as a guidance. I want your blessings in my attempts.
M.: Mahatma has told you to seek and find your Self. You will notdo it but require his blessings.
D.: I am trying to follow the instructions. But caste-distinction is painful. It must go.
M.: To whom does it cause pain?
D.: The members of the society...
M.: It is you who say it. There are countries where there are no such distinctions of caste. Are they free from trouble? There are wars,
internecine struggle, etc. Why do you not remedy the evils there?
D.: There are troubles here also.
M.: Differences are always there. There are not only human beings, but also animals, plants, etc. The state of affairs cannot be helped.
D.: We do not mind the animals, etc., at present.
M.: Why not? If they could speak they would claim equality with you and dispute your claims no less vigorously than human beings.
D.: But we cannot help it. It is God’s work.
M.: If that is God’s work then the other part is your work, is that so?
D.: It is man-made distinction.
M.: You need not notice these distinctions. There is diversity in the world. A unity runs through the diversity. The Self is the same in
all. There is no difference in spirit. All the differences are external and superficial. You find out the Unity and be happy. The pain of diversity is overcome by the joy of the perception of
unity. Moreover, a king may disguise himself as a servant. That makes no difference in the person.
D.: I do not object to differences. But the claims of superiority are wrong.
M.: There are differences in the limbs of one’s body. When the hand touches the foot the hand is not defiled. Each limb performs itsfunction. Why do you object to differences?
D.: The people feel the injustice of caste distinction. It must be rooted out.
M.: You can individually arrive at the state where such distinctions are not perceived and be happy. How can you hope to reform the
world? Even if you try you cannot succeed. Kavyakantha Ganapati Sastri offered to initiate Harijans with mantras and make Brahmins
of them. But the Harijans did not come forward to accept the offer. That shows they are themselves afflicted by an inferiority complex. Remove that complex first before you try to reform others.
Moreover, why do you go to places where such distinctions are observed and cause pain to yourself? Why should you not seek
places where they are not observed and be happy there? Gandhiji also tries to bring about equality. He is also up against the barrier of inferiority complex afflicting the lower orders. He
cannot enforce his views on others. He observes non-violence. So matters stand as they are.
D.: We must work to obliterate caste-distinctions.
M.: Then do it. If you have succeeded in the world, then see if the distinctions persist in this place.
D.: This must be the first place where I want to effect the reform.
M.: Why do you exert yourself so much to effect reforms? Go to sleep and see if there are differences. There you obliterate differences
without any effort. (Laughter).
